Cercle Catholique de Narbonne
with thanks to Johan Netchacovitch for permission to translate his interview.
[Once again the translation is my own, if there are horrendous errors please alert me to them dear readers ....]
I quote Octonovo [a French researcher who you can get to know HERE] after he carried out research on primary source material in Sauniere's famous 'Notebooks' -
"At the time, most Catholics lived their faith around three topics of devotion: devotion to the Pope, the Virgin Mary and the Sacred Heart. These are concerns that we find in Berenger Sauniere. As I was looking for a pious union [to explain some of the donations in the notebooks, Rhedesium Editor] some elements had me suspect those [kind of groups] dedicated to the Sacred Heart and [one] attached to one of three known archiconfréries. My literature searches yielded nothing ... and I think that this line of research here is doomed to failure. I continue to look for other associations, however ..."
This group may now have been identified by Christian Doumergue - the Cercle Catholique de Narbonne [Catholic Circle of Narbonne], a group that Sauniere's brother was a member of. However, he wasn't just a 'member' but an integral part of the Circle.
Below is a document which talks of this Cercle Catholique de Narbonne and Alfred Sauniere, brother of Berenger Sauniere. Following this is an interview with Christian Doumergue about his book on the Cercle with Johan Netchacovitch .
"At the time, most Catholics lived their faith around three topics of devotion: devotion to the Pope, the Virgin Mary and the Sacred Heart. These are concerns that we find in Berenger Sauniere. As I was looking for a pious union [to explain some of the donations in the notebooks, Rhedesium Editor] some elements had me suspect those [kind of groups] dedicated to the Sacred Heart and [one] attached to one of three known archiconfréries. My literature searches yielded nothing ... and I think that this line of research here is doomed to failure. I continue to look for other associations, however ..."
This group may now have been identified by Christian Doumergue - the Cercle Catholique de Narbonne [Catholic Circle of Narbonne], a group that Sauniere's brother was a member of. However, he wasn't just a 'member' but an integral part of the Circle.
Below is a document which talks of this Cercle Catholique de Narbonne and Alfred Sauniere, brother of Berenger Sauniere. Following this is an interview with Christian Doumergue about his book on the Cercle with Johan Netchacovitch .
Gazette of Rennes-le-Château: Alfred Sauniere is little studied in the affair of Rennes-le-Château in the broadest sense! You [however] tell us about this person. He played a leading role in the Catholic Circle of Narbonne. What was this role?
Christian Doumergue: An essential role. Alfred is one of the great orators of the Catholic Circle of Narbonne, one of its voices. At Narbonne of course, and beyond ... It is found in Montpellier for example ... His brilliant orations led him to occupy a central place in the organization of the Circle. In the war during the two types of France - Catholic and secular - his type of voice was a decisive weapon. Alfred was a speaker of [some] charisma. What we read about in the writings of Léonce Favatier, a leading figure of the circle, is to be compared with the photos of Alfred that we have. They allow us to imagine the magnetic power of his word. He writes in the daily newspapers under his influence. In short, he is a key player in the Cercle's propaganda. This earned Alfred several times the position of the presidency of the Catholic Circle.
Gazette de Rennes-le-Château: Could you clarify the role of "provider of funds" and how he would get the money and for what, since we find the same names in the notebooks of Berenger Sauniere and the Catholic Circle of Narbonne [or in its movement]?
Christian Doumergue: Alfred introduced Berenger Sauniere to the Catholic Circle of Narbonne. It is through him that several of the most important members made donations, quite large, to the parish priest of Rennes-le-Château. Starting with the Countess de Chambord: the circle of senior executives are in direct contact with him. Marie Cavailhé, who is chronologically the second donor of Sauniere, is also affiliated to the Circle. As for the big donors of the abbe, like the family of the Beauxhostes, for example, they are founding members of the group! These donations immediately follow the arrival of Sauniere at Narbonne in the fall of 1886, & it is certain that this money was given for the renovation of the church of Rennes. Marie Cavailhé will also visit [?] Sauniere and be presented to the villagers as his benefactress.
Gazette de Rennes-le-Château: You analyze the fine structure of the Catholic circles throughout France. Can you outline a presentation for our readers?
Christian Doumergue: The Catholic Circles were created in the 1870's with a very specific purpose: to allow the return of Count de Chambord to France (he is then exiled abroad) and for him to be installed on the throne of France. And thus restore the monarchy. Reading the instruction manuals of the internal workings of these Circles shows that these are propaganda tools. There are two faces of the Catholic circles, the public and internally. Officially, they are charities helping the working classes: opening libraries and game rooms for workers, for example, organization of popular lectures etc ... But this is the tip of the iceberg. The hidden part is the whole hierarchy of the Circles and the intent thereof. Management of the Circles consists of aristocrats and influential citizens who seek to implement various manipulation tools to overthrow the Republic. Their belief is that it's not the size that matters, but the effectiveness of the organization.
Gazette de Rennes-le-Château; "IN HOC SIGNO VINCES" is the rallying call of the Catholic circles but also this formula is found in the church of Saunière ... What do you conclude?
Christian Doumergue: The only thing we can deduce: that the donors of the Catholic Circle of Narbonne signed their work in Rennes-le-Château. And the renovation of the church of Rennes - while openly displaying the motto of the Circles, which was known to everyone at the time - was part of the propagandist plan of these Circles. That's why it was funded.
Gazette de Rennes-le-Château: You make available to your readers a considerable mass of documents more than 130 pages, sometimes transcribed for easy reading! You analyze them of course! You experience some relating to Alfred Sauniere, the Catholic Circle of Narbonne, the founding families, the publications of the Catholic Circle. The rich iconographic record of more than 40 pages of documents also reproduced in facsimile. Could you give some examples for our readers?
Christian Doumergue: These documents are of different kinds. Those concerning Alfred accurately reproduce his role in the Circle. Unfortunately for the Catholic Circle of Narbonne, there are a lot of missing pieces. Most of the documents available to him are reports written by agents at the service of the Republic, which for some time were infiltrating meetings of the Circle. The departmental archives of the Aude did not allow us to access any internal document of the Circle. Some of the motivations therefore remain inaccessible. We know that it financed the renovation of the church of Rennes but nothing says why! Is it a simple thank you to the political commitment of Berenger Sauniere, who had been temporarily suspended from his priestly duties by the Ministry of Religion when presented to the Circle? Or was there another reason for this funding, less personal?
It is in this sense that private letters of Chefdebien found in the Eastern Pyrenees are illuminating. The Chefdebien / Chambord element is particularly significant: it is the presentation of the reconquest strategy developed by the Circles [1]. The latter, for theorists circles, does not pass through the cities but in the countryside. This is the kind of element that we understand was the interest of the Circle of Narbonne for the work of Sauniere at Rennes-le-Château. The village was at the centre of one of these strategic areas defined by Monarchists theorists engaged in the reconquest. This element is one of those that explain why such gifts could happen in this small village ...
... This is an example of the interest presented by these new documents. Other transcribed documents, follow the monarchist system at work in the immediate environment of Sauniere and exhume from the shadow that which was and is often underground - a war without which the Sauniere case would probably never occurred.
[1] Editors comment: During the time of the two Sauniere's, there was unrest between the church and the state which are important. The priests are mostly anti-republican and Alfred Sauniere does not escape rulings and he is particularly noted for his pronounced positions. In addition, as a military chaplain Alfred will be denied by the civil authorities, or the authorization necessary for the bishopric. In 1897, he met the Marquise du Bourg de Bozas and became chaplain of the Patronage Narbonne. This proves that Alfred was traveling. Already Alfred was having an affair with the noble marquise. But the same year, he also became tutor to the children of the family of the Marquis of Chefdebien, dignitary of Freemasonry. How and by whom could he get this job? How did he know this family? Everything suggests that it would be thanks to the Marquise, but this remains a mystery. Note that at the same time, his brother Berenger was in full flight decorating the Mary Magdalene church.
The Marquis of Chefdebien Zagarriga is a curius character. Grand dignitary of Freemasonry, he comes from a very old family of the Languedoc, from Poitou (junior branch of the family of Viscount Chefdebien of Armissan in 1790 the noble Catalan family ÇAGARRIGA) and having his great grandfather domains. A son in the eighteenth was the founder of a major Masonic lodge and active in the nineteenth century. The marquis was also an intimate of the Comte de Chambord, heir to the throne of France and died on 24th august 1883. Recall that the Countess of Chambord donated 1,000 gold francs to Berenger Sauniere in 1886. One can also ask about Alfred and the consequences of this prolonged contact with high freemason. It is true that many priests at that time were a Freemason, but there were also opposing currents very virulent. Alfred Sauniere, tutor, did he use his unique position to some benefits and in what sense? Did he frequent political and financial circles?
Everything should have proceeded normally, but years later, Alfred was driven out of the house [of Chefdebien?] and struck by Chefdebien "pending a divinis" by his superiors for his life of "debauchery". .. What contempt had he committed? This episode will remain in mystery.
Despite some differences Alfred's brother Bérenger protected him without ceasing. In effect, Berenger Sauniere, at his trial, will continue to assert that the fury of his superiors to him is actually misplaced and due to his brother Alfred and his faults. What mistakes are these? His superiors seemed to be very aware. Another rumor reported by René Descadeillas explains that Alfred Sauniere had an illegitimate child with a nun, but no documents survive to prove this episode directly. It is with Chefdebien that his career probably failed and perhaps that of his life.
He is found in Montazels in 1903 where he lived with a younger woman, Emilie Marie Salière and with whom he had a child, André. The end of his life will be a veritable descent into hell. Those that knew him reported that he liked to drink with friends, often uncorked a few scandals and outrageous behavior. His career failure made him undoubtedly depressed and alcoholic. Comically one day drunk, he began to urinate from his terrace on the street (remarks reported by the mayor of the village of Montazels in 2001 André Fromilhague).
Alfred sick, died at 49 on the September 9, 1905 and he will never know his son - who was born 7 months later. Behind this family drama, another evil more deep & long smoldering remains, that of Bérenger's parents. On the death of Alfred a serious family conflict broke out and Berenger Sauniere wrote in a note dated April 18, 1906 the following:
"Serious events that occurred since the death of my poor brother opened my eyes and changed my ideas"
We also discover that Alfred was editor of the newspaper " la croix du midi " ["the Cross of the South"].
The Marquis of Chefdebien Zagarriga is a curius character. Grand dignitary of Freemasonry, he comes from a very old family of the Languedoc, from Poitou (junior branch of the family of Viscount Chefdebien of Armissan in 1790 the noble Catalan family ÇAGARRIGA) and having his great grandfather domains. A son in the eighteenth was the founder of a major Masonic lodge and active in the nineteenth century. The marquis was also an intimate of the Comte de Chambord, heir to the throne of France and died on 24th august 1883. Recall that the Countess of Chambord donated 1,000 gold francs to Berenger Sauniere in 1886. One can also ask about Alfred and the consequences of this prolonged contact with high freemason. It is true that many priests at that time were a Freemason, but there were also opposing currents very virulent. Alfred Sauniere, tutor, did he use his unique position to some benefits and in what sense? Did he frequent political and financial circles?
Everything should have proceeded normally, but years later, Alfred was driven out of the house [of Chefdebien?] and struck by Chefdebien "pending a divinis" by his superiors for his life of "debauchery". .. What contempt had he committed? This episode will remain in mystery.
Despite some differences Alfred's brother Bérenger protected him without ceasing. In effect, Berenger Sauniere, at his trial, will continue to assert that the fury of his superiors to him is actually misplaced and due to his brother Alfred and his faults. What mistakes are these? His superiors seemed to be very aware. Another rumor reported by René Descadeillas explains that Alfred Sauniere had an illegitimate child with a nun, but no documents survive to prove this episode directly. It is with Chefdebien that his career probably failed and perhaps that of his life.
He is found in Montazels in 1903 where he lived with a younger woman, Emilie Marie Salière and with whom he had a child, André. The end of his life will be a veritable descent into hell. Those that knew him reported that he liked to drink with friends, often uncorked a few scandals and outrageous behavior. His career failure made him undoubtedly depressed and alcoholic. Comically one day drunk, he began to urinate from his terrace on the street (remarks reported by the mayor of the village of Montazels in 2001 André Fromilhague).
Alfred sick, died at 49 on the September 9, 1905 and he will never know his son - who was born 7 months later. Behind this family drama, another evil more deep & long smoldering remains, that of Bérenger's parents. On the death of Alfred a serious family conflict broke out and Berenger Sauniere wrote in a note dated April 18, 1906 the following:
"Serious events that occurred since the death of my poor brother opened my eyes and changed my ideas"
We also discover that Alfred was editor of the newspaper " la croix du midi " ["the Cross of the South"].