Interview with M. Antoine CAPTIER (2001)
|
This interview took place in August 2001. As part of a 'mission' to try and make available more information about French researchers and their theories i have been given permission to translate this interview with Antoine Captier. I would like to thank Laurent Buchholtzer at www.octonovo.org for giving me permission to reproduce this interview which he carried out in 2001. I also recommend those interested in Rennes-le-Château to visit his website - it contains a wealth of relevant information. I have translated this article using on line translators and my own French dictionary. Any errors of translation are mine alone, and apologies to Laurent. The original French interview can be found here: http://www.octonovo.org/RlC/Fr/itw/itwaca.htm |
Interview with Mr. Antoine Captier
August 2001
OCTONOVO: Mr. Antoine Captier, you were born in 1937 in Rennes-le-Château, the village of your family, your grandfather knew the priest Saunière, you are married to Claire CORBU with whom you have written a book on the case (1) which contains many facsimiles of original documents in your possession ...
Antoine CAPTIER: My family moved to Rennes-le-Château from at least the seventeenth century. Some of my ancestors were men of noble confidence of the village. Sometime's they were owners of the castle but mayor's of the village several times.
When I was little, it was said that the priest had found a treasure through the papers given to him by my great-grandfather. Note that these documents had perhaps been worthless.
I personally knew mademoiselle Marie [Denarnaud], but I was young. At the beginning it was also not very binding. She was poor at that time. The research began in earnest with Mr. Noel CORBU. This was because she [Marie Denarnaud] often said to the people of the village "You walk on gold ...".
Bérenger Saunière was an authoritarian and stingy. He was often supported by the village elders and the council but rather cold with the other villagers. I do not mean he was not a wicked man, let's be clear. For example, during the war he was involved with young people in the village mounted at the front (?), they wrote and sent them some money.
They [the villagers?] were shocked by his wealth and lifestyle, but people also feared.
OCTONOVO: Tell me about the beginnings of the treasure hunt.
ACA: There are people who came before Mr. CORBU, but they were very quiet and did not leave a lot of memories with me.
The affair really starts with Mr. Noel CORBU at the death of Marie Denarnaud. He is the owner of the Domain and decides to transform it into a Hotel (2) and develops its history of buried treasure. Corbu believed himself since he undertook research and brought Robert CHARROUX and his Treasure Seekers' club here. There were people who worked empirically and others who had documents.
OCTONOVO: Pierre Plantard for example?
ACA: In a paper of 1959, Mr. CORBU was already in contact with Mr. PLANTARD. He did not say why he came to Rennes-le-Château and how he had gained the knowledge of it's history.
OCTONOVO: And Mr DOMERGUE?
ACA: Mr. Domergue was a hypnotist who came every year and was the one who dug the majority of the holes that date from this period (3) .
OCTONOVO: Gerard de Sede?
ACA: He released his book in 1967 (4) , but he came early to Rennes-le-Château. He already knew Pierre PLANTARD from the case of Gisors. Pierre PLANTARD had documents relating to the case, true or false ... What is annoying is that Gerard de Sede never gives his sources. His book has really brought the world to Rennes. The restaurant of my stepfather(?) coped fine then, but incommensurate with what followed. The customer's then, were those such as the brother of Déodat ROCHE, who [treated?] Bérenger Saunière and also his other brother who was the notary of the priest. There was also plenty of neo-Cathar's who came here on pilgrimage at the time.
OCTONOVO: Déodat ROCHE became interested in Rennes-le-Chateau?
ACA: Yes, he was interested, but we do not know why.
OCTONOVO: You inherited many documents relating to the case.
ACA: Bérenger Saunière was a priest with two facets, with one side that is largely ignored. We know for example that he moved, but we do not know where to: Lyon? Perpignan? Paris? Austria? Mr. Douzet is said to have traces of him in Lyon. Mademoiselle Marie had a little Eiffel Tower model ...
OCTONOVO: What do you have as background document's?
ACA: Around 1000 papers or letters, which recall the work sheets (all marked as Bérenger Saunière), private correspondence, about 400 letters on the trial. These documents were often published in books, including a number in ours. We miss periods. In addition, some of the background pages were dispersed among several people who unfortunately do not want to, they say, publish.
OCTONOVO: Is there a trace of relationships that Bérenger Saunière may have met with his counterpart in Rennes-les-Bains, the Abbé Boudet?
ACA: Very little. In the notes of the Masses and in his diary he notes he receives letters from him, but we do not have them. It's the same with Father GELIS. I'm quite taken with the idea of their relationship in the AA, which would suggest a relationship between Poussin and Rennes-le-Château.
OCTONOVO: You think the priests belonged to the secret society of the AA?
ACA: This is a particularly secret and discreet Catholic society. There is no evidence of formal membership.
OCTONOVO: Your book, published in 1985, is for me one of the best and most reliable published on the case.
ACA: This is a basic book in the sense that it does not develop any particularly theses, but exposes the facts as we know them. Many people wrote to us to ask us questions. We have written to themto give the essential elements in our possession.
OCTONOVO: You give them away?
ACA: To be clear, we have nothing extraordinary that indicates the location of a treasure or gives details about a secret of the priest. Marie Denarnaud burned too many papers. But it can be a complete work to improve knowledge that can be made.
OCTONOVO: What can you tell me about the relationship between Bérenger Saunière and Alfred?
ACA: They have not always been good relations in particular the death of their mother. For example after the death of Alfred, Berenger calls some property of his brother insisted.
OCTONOVO: For you, the treasure, what is it?
ACA: He found gold, it is undeniable. Whether in the tombs or from a deposit, but not such a big amount. What seems important is the secret that [he] pierced which ......brought all these noble and important people to Rennes-le-Château. A secret buried by Father BIGOU at the Revolution.
OCTONOVO: The question you would have liked me to have addressed?
ACA: I wish that people who do have documents that state and create a structure [to the story of Rennes-le-Chateau] would share [their information] and advance the story, because at this time the case of Rennes le Chateau looks too much like a puzzle. (5)
******************************************************************************************
Notes:
(1) L'héritage de l'Abbé SAUNIERE. Éditions Bélisane 1985.
(2) L'hôtel de la Tour.
(3) Les années 1950-60
(4) L'or de Rennes, ou la vie insolite de Bérenger Saunière curé de Rennes-le-Château.Julliard 1967.
(5) It goes without saying that I can only agree with this idea and encouraged!
August 2001
OCTONOVO: Mr. Antoine Captier, you were born in 1937 in Rennes-le-Château, the village of your family, your grandfather knew the priest Saunière, you are married to Claire CORBU with whom you have written a book on the case (1) which contains many facsimiles of original documents in your possession ...
Antoine CAPTIER: My family moved to Rennes-le-Château from at least the seventeenth century. Some of my ancestors were men of noble confidence of the village. Sometime's they were owners of the castle but mayor's of the village several times.
When I was little, it was said that the priest had found a treasure through the papers given to him by my great-grandfather. Note that these documents had perhaps been worthless.
I personally knew mademoiselle Marie [Denarnaud], but I was young. At the beginning it was also not very binding. She was poor at that time. The research began in earnest with Mr. Noel CORBU. This was because she [Marie Denarnaud] often said to the people of the village "You walk on gold ...".
Bérenger Saunière was an authoritarian and stingy. He was often supported by the village elders and the council but rather cold with the other villagers. I do not mean he was not a wicked man, let's be clear. For example, during the war he was involved with young people in the village mounted at the front (?), they wrote and sent them some money.
They [the villagers?] were shocked by his wealth and lifestyle, but people also feared.
OCTONOVO: Tell me about the beginnings of the treasure hunt.
ACA: There are people who came before Mr. CORBU, but they were very quiet and did not leave a lot of memories with me.
The affair really starts with Mr. Noel CORBU at the death of Marie Denarnaud. He is the owner of the Domain and decides to transform it into a Hotel (2) and develops its history of buried treasure. Corbu believed himself since he undertook research and brought Robert CHARROUX and his Treasure Seekers' club here. There were people who worked empirically and others who had documents.
OCTONOVO: Pierre Plantard for example?
ACA: In a paper of 1959, Mr. CORBU was already in contact with Mr. PLANTARD. He did not say why he came to Rennes-le-Château and how he had gained the knowledge of it's history.
OCTONOVO: And Mr DOMERGUE?
ACA: Mr. Domergue was a hypnotist who came every year and was the one who dug the majority of the holes that date from this period (3) .
OCTONOVO: Gerard de Sede?
ACA: He released his book in 1967 (4) , but he came early to Rennes-le-Château. He already knew Pierre PLANTARD from the case of Gisors. Pierre PLANTARD had documents relating to the case, true or false ... What is annoying is that Gerard de Sede never gives his sources. His book has really brought the world to Rennes. The restaurant of my stepfather(?) coped fine then, but incommensurate with what followed. The customer's then, were those such as the brother of Déodat ROCHE, who [treated?] Bérenger Saunière and also his other brother who was the notary of the priest. There was also plenty of neo-Cathar's who came here on pilgrimage at the time.
OCTONOVO: Déodat ROCHE became interested in Rennes-le-Chateau?
ACA: Yes, he was interested, but we do not know why.
OCTONOVO: You inherited many documents relating to the case.
ACA: Bérenger Saunière was a priest with two facets, with one side that is largely ignored. We know for example that he moved, but we do not know where to: Lyon? Perpignan? Paris? Austria? Mr. Douzet is said to have traces of him in Lyon. Mademoiselle Marie had a little Eiffel Tower model ...
OCTONOVO: What do you have as background document's?
ACA: Around 1000 papers or letters, which recall the work sheets (all marked as Bérenger Saunière), private correspondence, about 400 letters on the trial. These documents were often published in books, including a number in ours. We miss periods. In addition, some of the background pages were dispersed among several people who unfortunately do not want to, they say, publish.
OCTONOVO: Is there a trace of relationships that Bérenger Saunière may have met with his counterpart in Rennes-les-Bains, the Abbé Boudet?
ACA: Very little. In the notes of the Masses and in his diary he notes he receives letters from him, but we do not have them. It's the same with Father GELIS. I'm quite taken with the idea of their relationship in the AA, which would suggest a relationship between Poussin and Rennes-le-Château.
OCTONOVO: You think the priests belonged to the secret society of the AA?
ACA: This is a particularly secret and discreet Catholic society. There is no evidence of formal membership.
OCTONOVO: Your book, published in 1985, is for me one of the best and most reliable published on the case.
ACA: This is a basic book in the sense that it does not develop any particularly theses, but exposes the facts as we know them. Many people wrote to us to ask us questions. We have written to themto give the essential elements in our possession.
OCTONOVO: You give them away?
ACA: To be clear, we have nothing extraordinary that indicates the location of a treasure or gives details about a secret of the priest. Marie Denarnaud burned too many papers. But it can be a complete work to improve knowledge that can be made.
OCTONOVO: What can you tell me about the relationship between Bérenger Saunière and Alfred?
ACA: They have not always been good relations in particular the death of their mother. For example after the death of Alfred, Berenger calls some property of his brother insisted.
OCTONOVO: For you, the treasure, what is it?
ACA: He found gold, it is undeniable. Whether in the tombs or from a deposit, but not such a big amount. What seems important is the secret that [he] pierced which ......brought all these noble and important people to Rennes-le-Château. A secret buried by Father BIGOU at the Revolution.
OCTONOVO: The question you would have liked me to have addressed?
ACA: I wish that people who do have documents that state and create a structure [to the story of Rennes-le-Chateau] would share [their information] and advance the story, because at this time the case of Rennes le Chateau looks too much like a puzzle. (5)
******************************************************************************************
Notes:
(1) L'héritage de l'Abbé SAUNIERE. Éditions Bélisane 1985.
(2) L'hôtel de la Tour.
(3) Les années 1950-60
(4) L'or de Rennes, ou la vie insolite de Bérenger Saunière curé de Rennes-le-Château.Julliard 1967.
(5) It goes without saying that I can only agree with this idea and encouraged!
Antoine Captier runs the French society 'Terre de Rhedae'. You can find more information about this group and the magazine they publish at their website: http://www.terrederhedae.com/
Fascinating that Captier recalls that all the treasure hunting started because of the comments made by Marie Denarnaud!
Fascinating that Captier recalls that all the treasure hunting started because of the comments made by Marie Denarnaud!
